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This is a page for platonism versus hedonism

Stephenson

Is Isaac attempting to use alchemy to find the scientific proof of Plato's pure ideal of a thing? What exactly is he trying to put over Daniel? That Daniel can get unbent enough to interact with Tess Charter and Eliza demonstrates he is of the Garden not the Academy.

Authored entries

Isaac & Plato's Cave

On the banks of the River Cam — an older lad tries an old Platonic idea dressed up in Wilkins' Analytical Language upon on a hardened realist. Get out your wallets and buy the Epicurus the Sage TPB Graphic Novel. This dialogue sums up my feeling for the soft soap Isaac is trying to shill Daniel.SchoolofAthens_MW.jpg
Raphael's School of Athens, c. 1510-1511
Plato and Aristotle, are central to this piece
Epicurus is off to the left
below the rushing messenger —
Plato looks very much like Leonardo da Vinci Epicurus: “Let me see if I've got this… Everything that is real doesn't exist, and the only things that do exist are the things in this cave, which you just made up?” Plato: “Right!” “Starting with the classic "Rape of Persephone" tale, and moves on to a little historical context to set the stage. The story takes place after the Trojan War and the Battle of Marathon, a perfect place to start, as this was the beginning of classical philosophy. … set to introduce a young tyke named Alexander of Macedon, Pericles the Archon, and the goddess Demeter. Epicurus uses logic and mediation to come up with a solution that keeps everyone happy. … and you have this quote: “Stinkin’, liverless, lazy, spongin’, Egyptoid, brainless, stuck up, pus-fartin’, shit-lickin’, eel-ased philosophers!”[1]

Better yet, Plato (means “wide-shouldered”) and was a snide nick name for the man would teach the even wackier Aristotle (whose science was strangely embraced by Christianity).

Plato

Mostly sourced from the Wikipedia

Plato (c. 427 BCE - c. 347 BCE) was an immensely influential classical Greek philosopher, student of Socrates and teacher of Aristotle. His most famous work is The Republic (Greek Politeia, 'city') in which he outlines his vision of an "ideal" state. He also wrote the Laws and many dialogues in which Socrates is the main participant.

Biography

Plato was born in Athens, into a moderately well-to-do aristocratic family. His father was named Ariston and his mother Perictione. An ancestor, Glaucon, was one of the best-known members of the Athenian nobility. Plato's own real name was "Aristocles." The nickname Plato originates from wrestling circles, that much is agreed on. Since Plato means "broad," it probably refers either to his physical appearance or possibly wrestling stance or style.Ari%26Plato_MW.jpg
ARISTOTLE & PLATO
Reflecting two schools of thought
these philosophers share a world of
provocative and debatable theories
Plato points upward and represents
abstract and theoretical philosophy.
Aristotle gestures earthward indicating
the concern with the real and
practical world. On Plato’s side (left)
Apollo - who represents harmony
and sobriety as well as
philosophical enlightenment. On
Aristotle’s side (right) is Minerva
- the goddess of wisdom who
presides over peace. She was
associated with institutions
devoted to knowledge and artistry.

He founded the Academy, one of the earliest known organized schools in Western civilization, named after the spot it was founded on, holy to the hero Academus. Aristotle was a student there for many years. It operated until it was closed by Justinian I of Byzantium in 529 CE

Plato became a pupil of Socrates in his youth, and--according to his own account, anyhow--attended his master's trial, though not his execution. Unlike Socrates, Plato wrote down his philosophical views and left a considerable number of manuscripts (see below). He was deeply affected by the city's treatment of Socrates: much of his early work enshrines his memories of his teacher, and much of his ethical writing suggests a desire to found a society where similar injustices could not occur.

Plato was also deeply influenced by the Pythagoreans, whose notions of numerical harmony have clear echoes in Plato's notion of the Forms (sometimes thus capitalized; see below); by Anaxagoras, who taught Socrates and who held that the mind or reason pervades everything; and by Parmenides, who argued the unity of all things.

In Plato's writings one finds the heliocentric theory of the universe long before it was advanced by Aristarchus (and revived still later and given a scientific footing by Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler). One finds debates concerning aristocratic and democratic forms of government. One finds debates concerning the role of heredity and environment in human intelligence and personality long before the modern "nature versus nurture" debate began in the time of Hobbes and Locke, with its modern continuation in such controversial works as The Mismeasure of Man and The Bell Curve. One finds arguments for the subjectivity--and the objectivity--of human knowledge which foreshadow modern debates between Hume and Kant, or between the postmodernists and their opponents. Even the myth of the lost city or continent of Atlantis originates as an illustrative story told by Plato in his Timaeus and Critias.

Work

Plato wrote his philosophy down mainly in the form of dialogues in which several characters discuss a topic by asking questions of one another. The early ones, where Socrates figures prominently and his own teaching style is used, are called the Socratic Dialogues. But the philosophy expressed in his dialogues changed a great deal over the course of Plato's life, and this makes it difficult to determine whether an opinion expressed in one of these dialogues is an idea of Socrates', or Plato's. (Plato himself appears only very briefly in two of the dialogues, and says nothing.) It is generally agreed that Plato's earlier works are more closely based on Socrates' thought, whereas his later writing increasingly breaks away with the views of his former teacher. In the middle dialogues, Socrates becomes a mouthpiece for Plato's own philosophy, and the question-and-answer style is more pro forma. The later dialogues are closer to being simply treatises, and Socrates is often absent or quiet.

Plato's Metaphysics: Platonism, or realism

One of Plato's legacies, and perhaps his greatest, was his dualistic metaphysics, often called (in metaphysics) simply "realism" or "Platonism." Whatever it is called, Plato's metaphysics divides the world into two distinct aspects: the intelligible world of "forms" and the perceptual world we see around us. He saw the perceptual world, and the things in it, as imperfect copies of the intelligible forms or ideas. These forms are unchangable and perfect, and are only comprehensible by the use of the intellect or understanding (i.e., a capacity of the mind that does not include sense-perception or imagination).

In the Republic Books VI and VII, Plato used a number of metaphors to explain his metaphysical views: the metaphor of the sun, the well-known allegory of the cave, and most explicitly, the divided line. Taken together, these metaphors convey a complex and, in places, difficult theory: there is something called The Form of the Good (often interpreted as Plato's God), which is the ultimate object of knowledge and which as it were sheds light on all the other forms (i.e., universals: abstract kinds and attributes) and from which all other forms "emanate." The Form of the Good does this in somewhat the same way as the sun sheds light on, or makes visible and "generates," things in the perceptual world. (See Plato's metaphor of the sun. ) But indeed, in the perceptual world, the particular objects we see around us bear only a dim resemblance to the more ultimately real forms of Plato's intelligible world: it is as if we are seeing shadows of cut-out shapes on the walls of a cave, which are mere representations of the reality outside the cave, illuminated by the sun. (See Plato's allegory of the cave. ) We can imagine everything in the universe represented on a line of increasing reality; it is divided once in the middle, and then once again in each of the resulting parts. The first division represents that between the intelligible and the perceptual worlds. Then there is a corresponding division in each of these worlds: the segment representing the perceptual world is divided into segments representing "real things" on the one hand, and shadows, reflections, and representations on the other. Similarly, the segment representing the intelligible world is divided into segments representing first principles and most general forms, on the one hand, and more derivative, "reflected" forms, on the other. (See the divided line of Plato. ) The form of government derived from this philosophy turns out to be one of a rigidly fixed hierarchy of hereditary classes, in which the arts are mostly suppressed for the good of the state, the size of the city and its social classes is determined by mathematical formula, and eugenic measures are applied secretly by rigging the lotteries in which the right to reproduce is allocated. The tightness of connection of such government to the lofty and original philosophy in the book has been debated.

Plato's allegory of the cave

Plato 's allegory of the cave is perhaps the best-known of his many metaphors, allegories, and myths.

The allegory is told and interpreted at the beginning of Book VII of The Republic (514a-520a). The allegory is probably best presented as a story, and then interpreted--as Plato himself does. Epicurus_MW.jpg
Epicurus
Working on a book

The allegory

Imagine prisoners chained since childhood deep inside a cave. Not only are their limbs immobilized by the chains, their heads are as well so that their eyes are fixed on a wall. Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised way, along which men carry shapes of various animals, plants, and other things. The shapes cast shadows on the wall, which occupy the prisoners' attention. Also, when one of the shape-carriers speaks, an echo against the wall causes the prisoners to believe that the words come from the shadows. The prisoners engage in what appears to us to be a game--naming the shapes as they come by. This, however, is the only reality that they know, even though they are seeing merely shadows of images.

Suppose a prisoner is released and compelled to stand up and turn around. His eyes will be blinded by the firelight, and the shapes passing will appear less real than their shadows. Similarly, if he is dragged up out of the cave into the sunlight, his eyes will be so blinded that he will not be able to see anything. At first, he will be able to see darker shapes such as shadows, and only later brighter and brighter objects. The last object he would be able to see is the sun, which, in time, he would learn to see as that it is that provides the seasons and the courses of the year and presides over all things in the visible region, and is in some sort the cause of all these things that they had seen. (The Republic bk. VII, 516b-c; trans. Paul Shorey)

This part of the allegory, incidentally, closely matches Plato's metaphor of the sun which occurs near the end of The Republic Book VI.

Once thus enlightened, so to speak, the freed prisoner would no doubt want to return to the cave to free "his fellow bondsmen." The problem however is that they would not want to be freed: descending back into the cave would require that the freed prisoner's eyes adjust again, and for a time, he would be inferior at the ludicrous process of identifying shapes on the wall. This would make his fellow prisoners murderous toward anyone who attempted to free them.

The interpretation

Not content with mere suggestion, Plato interprets the allegory (beginning at 517b): "This image then [the allegory of the cave] we must apply as a whole to all that has been said"--i.e., it can be used to interpret the preceding several pages, which concern the metaphor of the sun and the divided line. In particular, Plato likens "the region revealed through sight," i.e., the ordinary objects we see around us to the habitation of the prison, and the light of the fire in it to the power of the sun. And if you assume the ascent and the contemplation of the things above is the soul's ascension to the intelligible region, you will not miss my surmise... . [M]y dream as it appears to me is that in the region of the known the last thing to be seen and hardly seen is the idea of good, and that when seen it must needs point us to the conclusion that this is indeed the cause for all things of all that is right and beautiful, giving birth in the visible world to light, and the author of light and itself in the intelligible world being the authentic source of truth and reason... . (517b-c)

The brilliant sun outside the cave represents the Form of the Good, and this passage among others can easily give the impression that Plato regarded this as a creative god. Ordinarily we are held captive, viewing mere shadows of particular shapes that are themselves not even the genuine article--which can only be found "outside the cave," in an intelligible world of forms known by reason, not (relatively "dim") perception.

Moreover, after "returning from divine contemplations to the petty miseries of men," one is apt to cut "a sorry figure" if, while still blinking through the gloom, and before he has become sufficiently accustomed to the environing darkness, he is compelled in courtrooms or elsewhere to contend about the shadows of justice or the images that cast the shadows and to wrangle in debate about the notions of these things in the minds of those who have never seen justice itself? (517d-e)

Plato could, perhaps, be thinking (or subtly reminding the reader) of the trial of Socrates here.

It might appear strange that, while acknowledging the political ineptness of one "returning from divine contemplations," Plato has all the while been describing the ideal state, ruled by philosopher-kings, a qualification of which is that they are in regular intercourse with the Form of the Good.

Platonism

Platonic idealism is the theory that the substantive reality around us is only a reflection of a higher truth. That truth, Plato argues, is the abstraction. A particular tree, with a branch or two missing, possibly alive, possibly dead, and initials of two lovers carved into its bark, is distinct from the concept of a Tree. A Tree is the ideal that each of us holds that allows us to identify the imperfect reflections of trees all around us.

Some people construe "Platonism" to mean the proposition that universals exist independently of particulars (a universal is anything that can be predicated of a particular).

Platonism is an ancient school of philosophy, founded by Plato; this school had an actual, physical existence at a site just outside the walls of Athens called the Academy as well as the intellectual unity of a shared approach to philosophizing.

Platonism is generally divided into three periods: 1. Early Platonism 2. Middle Platonism 3. Neoplatonism

Platonism is considered to be, in mathematics departments the world over, the predominant philosophy regarding Foundations of mathematics. One statement of this philosophy is the thesis that mathematics is not created but discovered in some undescribed realm. A lucid statement of this is found in the autobiography of British mathematician G. H. Hardy.

The absence in this thesis of clear distinction between mathematical and nonmathematical "creation" leaves open the inference that it applies to allegedly creative endeavors in art, music, and literature.

Plato's metaphysics, and particularly the dualism between the intelligible and the perceptual, would inspire later Neoplatonic thinkers (see Plotinus ) and Gnosticism ) and other metaphysical realists. For more on Platonic realism in general, see Platonic realism and the Forms.

Neoplatonism

Neo-Platonism is an ancient school of philosophy beginning in the 3rd century A.D. It was based on the teachings of Plato and Platonists ; but it interpreted Plato in many new ways, such that Neo-Platonism was quite different from what Plato taught, though many Neo-Platonists would not admit the distinction.

Neo-Platonism began with the philosopher Plotinus, though Plotinus claimed to have received his teachings from Ammonius Saccas, an illiterate dock-worker in Alexandria. His most important work was the Six Enneads, in which he explains his philosophy.

Plotinus taught the existence of an indescribable One, which emanated the rest of the universe as a sequence of lesser beings. Later Neo-Platonic philosophers, especially Iamblichus, added hundreds of intermediate gods and beings as emanations between the One and humanity; but Plotinus' system was much simpler in comparison.

Later Neo-Platonic philosophers included Porphyry, Proclus, Iamblichus and Hypatia of Alexandria.

Neo-Platonism was frequently used as a philosophical foundation for paganism, and as a means of defending paganism against Christianity; but many Christians were also influenced by Neo-Platonism. In Christian versions of Neo-Platonism, the One is identified as God. Most important of these was Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite, whose work was very influential in the Middle Ages. Augustine of Hippo converted to Christianity under the influence of Plotinus, leading most scholars to label Augustine a frank Neo-Platonist; although, they note that Augustine's subordination of philosophy to scripture leads to striking differences from the non-Christian philosophy. Some scholars have shown that Neo-Platonism was also influenced by Christian theology, notably through the belief systems known as Gnosticism.PlatoEpicurusBustMW.jpg
Plato and Epicurus
Talking Heads?

Neo-Platonism was revived in the Italian Renaissance by figures such as Marsilio Ficino.. ..

Plato also had some influential opinions on the nature of knowledge and learning which he propounded in the Meno, which began with the question of whether virtue can be taught, and proceeded to expound the concepts of recollection, learning as the discovery of pre-existing knowledge, and right opinion, opinions which are correct but have no clear justification.

A short history of Plato scholarship

Plato's thought is often compared with that of his best and most famous student, Aristotle, whose reputation during the Middle Ages so completely eclipsed that of Plato that the Scholastic philosophers referred to Aristotle as "the Philosopher."

Aristotle

Aristotle, known as Aristoteles in most languages other than English (Aristotele in Italian), (384 BCE - March 7, 322 BCE) was a Greek philosopher. Along with Plato, he is often considered to be one of the two most influential philosophers in Western thought.

Introduction

The three greatest ancient Greek philosophers were Aristotle, Plato, who was a teacher of Aristotle, and Socrates (c. 470-399 BCE), whose thinking deeply influenced Plato. Among them they transformed early (now, "presocratic") Greek philosophy into the foundations of Western philosophy as we know it. Socrates--possibly as a result of the reasons articulated against writing philosophy attributed to him in Plato's dialogue Phaedrus -- wrote nothing, and his ideas come down to us only indirectly through Plato and a few other ancient writers. The writings of Plato and Aristotle form the core of Ancient philosophy.

Their works, although connected in many fundamental ways, are very different in both style and substance. Plato wrote several dozen philosophical dialogues--arguments in the form of conversations, usually with Socrates as a participant--and a few letters. Though the early dialogues are concerned mainly with methods of acquiring knowledge, and most of the last ones with justice and practical ethics, his most famous works expressed a synoptic view of ethics, metaphysics, reason, knowledge, and human life. The predominant ideas were that knowledge gained through the senses is always confused and impure, and that true knowledge is acquired by the contemplative soul that turns away from the world. The soul alone can have knowledge of the Forms, the real essences of things, of which the world we see is but an imperfect copy. Such knowledge has ethical as well as scientific import. Plato can be called, with qualification, an idealist and a rationalist.

Aristotle, by contrast, placed much more value on knowledge gained from the senses, and would correspondingly be better classed among modern empiricists (see materialism and empiricism). Thus, Aristotle set the stage for what would eventually develop into the scientific method centuries later. Although he wrote dialogues early in his career, no more than fragments of these have survived. The works of Aristotle that still exist today are in treatise form and were, for the most part, unpublished texts. These were probably lecture notes, or texts used by his students, and were almost certainly revised repeatedly over the course of years. As a result these works tend to be eclectic, dense, and difficult to read. Among the most important are Physics, Metaphysics, (Nicomachean) Ethics, Politics, De Anima (On the Soul), and Poetics.

The Problem of Laziness

One of the characteristics of the Middle Ages was reliance on authority and on scholastic commentaries on writings of Plato and other historically important philosophers, rather than accessing their original works. In fact, Plato's original writings were essentially lost to western civilization until their reintroduction in the twelfth century through the agency of Arab scholars who had maintained the original Greek texts of the ancients. These were eventually translated into Latin and later, into the local vernacular.

Only in the Renaissance, with the general resurgence of interest in classical civilization, did knowledge of Plato's philosophy become more widespread. Many of the greatest early modern scientists (e.g., Galileo) and artists (with the support of the Plato-inspired Lorenzo de Medici) who broke with Scholasticism and fostered the flowering of the Renaissance saw Plato's philosophy as the basis for progress in the arts and sciences.

Today, Plato's reputation is as easily on a par with Aristotle's. Many college students have read Plato but not Aristotle, in large part because the former's greater accessibility.

Works by Plato

A work is marked (1) if it is not generally agreed by scholars that Plato is the author of the work. A work is marked (2) if it is generally agreed by scholars that Plato is not the author of the work. PlatoPalMW.jpg
PLATO
as pictured by Sam Kieth
Detail from image below Alcibiades (1); Plato's Apology Axiochus (2) Charmides Clitophon (1) Cratylus Critias Crito Definitions (2) Demodocus (2) Epigrams Epinomis (2) Eryxias (2) Euthydemus Euthyphro Gorgias Greater Hippias (1) Halcyon (2) Hipparchus (2) Ion Laches Laws Lesser Hippias Letters Lysis Menexenus Plato's Meno Minos (2) On Justice (2) On Virtue (2) Parmenides Phaedo Phaedrus Philebus Protagoras Rival Lovers (2) Plato's Republic Second Alcibiades (2) Sisyphus (2) Sophist Statesman Symposium Theaetetus Theages (2) Timaeus

Epicurus

Epicurus, Hellenistic Greek philosopher (born Samos, 341 BCE; died Athens, 270 BCE). Epicurus was born into an Athenian émigré family - his parents, both Athenian citizens, had moved to an Athenian settlement on the Aegean island of Samos. He returned to Athens to serve as an ephebe - a young citizen in military training. The playwright Menander served in the same age-class of the ephebes as Epicurus.EpicurussagetpbMW.jpg
Plato, Epicurus, & Alexander in front
of one of Cerebus's heads
Two Images from the GN

After pursuing philosophical education in several Greek cities he taught in two cities in Asia Minor. In about 306 BCE he bought a house and garden in Athens.

The Garden in comparison to The Academy

  • Epicureanism
  • Hedonism

Epicureanism is a system of philosophy based upon the teachings of Epicurus (c 340 - c270 BCE). Epicurus was an atomic materialist, following in the steps of Democritus. His materialism led him to a general attack on superstition and divine intervention. Following Aristippus —about whom we know very little—Epicurus believed that the greatest good was to seek pleasure. This doctrine is also known as hedonism. That he was willing to teach women is the critical difference between the Garden and the Academy.

For Epicurus, pleasure was obtained by knowledge (freedom from fear), friendship, and living a virtuous and temperate life. Epicurus did not articulate a broad system of social ethics that has survived.

Epicurean materialism is presented very simply, but anticipates a great deal of later scientific discovery in important respects. Dalton's atomic theory and Darwin's theory of evolution can both be seen in Epicurean writings.

Some writings by Epicurus have survived. In addition, many scholars consider the epic poem On the Nature of Things by Lucretius to present in one unified work the core arguments and theories in Epicurus's writings.

Epicureanism emphasizes the neutrality of gods on earth and that they do not interfere with the world we live in. It also states that gods, matter and souls are all made from the same thing (atoms). Souls are made from atoms, and gods possess souls, but their souls adhere to the bodies without escaping. In the case of humans we do have the same kind of souls, but the forces between our atoms do not possess the fortitude to hold the soul forever.

Epicureanism is probably the first philosophical school which introduced the social contract, in that the laws established by this school of thought are based on mutual agreement, not divine decree.

Epicurus' school, called "The Garden," seems to have been a moderately ascetic community which rejected the political limelight of Athenian philosophy. They were fairly cosmopolitan by Athenian standards, including women and slaves, and were probably vegetarians.

Epicureanism was the main opponent of Stoicism. Epicurus and his followers shunned politics and as such it was never a major philosophy. After the death of Epicurus, its main proponent was the Roman Lucretius. It had all but died out by the end of the Roman Empire, and was again resurrected by the atomist Pierre Gassendi during the Enlightenment.

In modern popular usage, epicureanism implies a love or knowledgeable enjoyment of good food and drink—see the definition of gourmet at Wiktionary.

Hedonism

Hedonism is any theory that gives pleasure a central role. The simplest form of hedonism in ethics is "whatever causes pleasure is right." Even that simple version immediately runs into trouble. Pleasure for whom? Average pleasure? Is that the median or the mean? How can you make interpersonal comparisons of pleasure, anyway? Or even cross-time comparisons for the same person? Is that pleasure in the short term, or the long term? Another summary of hedonism, "Pleasure is the highest good" avoids some of these complexities, at the cost of not saying anything of practical consequence...

Epicureanism is the best-known form of ancient hedonism. Epicurus identified pleasure with tranquility, and emphasized the "reduce desire" aspects over the "find lots of hot babes" aspects.

The utilitarianism of John Stuart Mill is sometimes classified as a type of hedonism, since it judges the rightness of actions from the happiness that they lead to, and happiness is identified with pleasure. This is, note, a selfless hedonism; whereas Epicurus recommends doing whatever makes you happiest, Mill would have you do whatever makes everyone happiest.

Some of Sigmund Freud 's theories of human motivation have been called psychological hedonism; his "life instinct" turns out to be the (startling!) observation that people pursue pleasure. But he muddies up the waters with various less plausible mechanisms, such as the "death instinct."