Talk:Stephenson:Neal:Quicksilver:20:Ask your father (Alan Sinder)
From the Quicksilver Metaweb.
I think This is the point of interest many have in Enoch Root, his longevity, as well as something more Base, which fascinates many. For one, he appears, as an Intelligent man. For, another, The author has made him likeable, in that he is indentified as a Help, rather than a Hindrance. As for faults, Enoch has none, other than that he is Not all knowing, we are shown this almost immediately, when he does not trust young Ben with the name of the one he seeks, and thus, creates a bit of a hub-bub in his search for Daniel. The author uses other examples to show that Enoch Is a Human Being.
In many ways, Enoch most closely resembles Jack Shaftoe, though, it may not seem so for a number of people, particularly if one feels strongly about two points;
- Enoch is a "Time-Traveler"
- Jack Shaftoe is... well, an imbecile.
If Enoch's longevity is an issue, as it seems to be for many, then the question must be, How, The Why does not seem to be asked quite so much.
How does Enoch Span the Centuries?
How is Enoch able to be at the Right place at the right time? -- A List of all Enoch's, various, interactions is supplied, somewhere, from his meeting with Jack in the Village Store, to his warning Eliza about a "meteor".
How Does Enoch Know where to be in the first place -- Many of the events are unlikely to have been recorded.
And,
How Did Enoch Know, what he Had to do, that his warning to Eliza would be correctly interpretted, that his messages to Jack would be understood, and, is that really All he is doing here?
One Major question of How, is that these moments we see with Enoch, are no less brilliant than those we see with Jack. In many cases, particularly in Enoch's dealings with Eliza and Jack, time is of the essence, these events appear to be, Very, precise. As with Jack, an opportunity is presented, and Must be grasped, the Moment it occurs.
So, How does Enoch Know When, and where and How these moments Must occur. That some factor of time travel is possibly involved is unlikely, And, possibly irrelevant, and, uninteresting. The most interesting aspect, Here, seems to be, Where did Enoch come into His knowledge, and,
Why is this so important? timberbee 05:23, 8 Feb 2004 (PST)
Explain the presence of Dr GEB Kivistik? Was becoming defrocked a help for Kivistik's mom? There are anthropomorphic representatives of Help in SF&F such as Susan Sto-Helit, Death's granddaughter (i.e. the daughter of Ysabell and Mort) - from Discworld. I view Enoch Root as having an agenda of ethics-grounded scientific and cultural progress. - Sparky 15:59, 2004 Feb 8 (PST) Sweevo the God of Cut Timber from the same Discworld series may be worth a look. Wonder what panupunitoplasty means?
Jack is more of a cultural savant-and-apparent fool - he's got more going on than you'd expect of an imbecile. He's paid a price in being branded a vagabond. But he's not clever in the sense you'd expect. I'd expect a smarter man to change a V brand into an A one. - Sparky
I should say, from the beginning, that I do not believe that Jack is an imbecile, in any way shape or form. I do not feel that he is that different from Enoch, either.
Of what Faith is Jack?
Science is, in a very similar boat with Religion. They both, largely, bodies of Faith. One can say that in "science" one's Faith is derived through a rigorous process of observation, experimentation, hypothsis, and testing, and so on, the cycle repeats. And thus, Progress is made, and the Universe understood. In science there then exists but Two bodies; the Known, and the Unknown, there is no Definite Body, as there is Assumed to be in Religion; that of the Unknown.
Religion is not all that different from Science. It is a Body of knowledge which seeks to understand, and to Explain the Universe. One aspect that they Both have in common, is that the process by which the knowledge is obtained is inaccessible to most of their Adherents. For the great bulk of their "Worshippers", or, "Followers", Their belief Is, a matter of Faith. They have not tested, and verified, for themselves. If one but accepts the explanations of those around them, adopts their Faith, whatever that Faith may be, without every truly testing it for themselves, Can that person be said to be moral, even if they astudiously, and without hesitation, obey every tenet and prescribe put before them.
Jack is of the Third field, those who Experience the world. There is a quest to see the World as it is, and, upon that quest we must throw away that which was given to us, in order to embrace the world.
I am looking for something within Jack that I do not find, and it makes me ask the question, is it there? and, Need it be? There is no "Listening", and no silence. And, if there were, undoubtedly, Jack may well have taken the forefront in this tale, but, how would that have become anything but another Illustrated Primer? All these other aspects, the great and important happenings, would have taken a back seat, and become... Not so "Important".
One of the things, which Most of us in This Culture, accept is that certain things are More important, and certain things are Less important. Calculus, Physics, Medicine, the pursuit, and the Application of knowledge; these rank among the Most important. Jack, how he lives, and what he does, ranks among the least.
What is it that Jack does, which causes so much resistance, defiance, anger, base frustration and Fear? Is it that Jack rejects progress, that he doesnt do, What he is Supposed to, and that, at its Heart, he wastes his life?
That Jacks brother Bob, is thought of, by some, to be a Superior form, and spirit, to Jacks only embodies this. But, what has Bob done; He has been a Servant to another, and, through attempting to bend another to his Own will, falling prey to his Own assumptions, he becomes a Being with more than One Master. He did not understand the Universe, He acted with Faith. And, he stayed within the system which enslaved him, allowed it to enslave one he professed to Love, and, remarkably, not only did he do nothing to end what He viewed as her torment, but, he continued to serve the very system responsible for her captivity, if not the very Men themselves.
We cannot say the same for Jack,
The idea that Jack is, somehow, Flawed, that he is a Failed person, an imbecile, and, a Broken Vessel, is one which lies within our Own breast. It is our Own Flaws we reject, and we Project upon this being, a Character, in a book.
There is nothing about Jack to say, This Man is Less than Dirt, any more than there is anything about Enoch to say, This Man is as a God. The morality, that is shown for either, for both, is exemplary. Not so for most of the other characters.
And yet, we are shown Passion from the Weaker than Water Daniel, and from some of the others as well, from Hooke, and Isaac, and their like. As important a lesson as any we see.
Of Eliza, who can say, Not I.
It is mostly a question of what is important. I would be called, something, I am sure, to say that, in time, none of this will matter. Like What time is it now?, But, it Is where we put our efforts, it is the Striving, the grasping, the Embrace of life, without which, There Is no life. Passion, Heart. Importance is Our Choice. Yours, and Mine, whoever You are, for me, that is the secret of Jack. timberbee 17:25, 8 Feb 2004 (PST)
Tim - some of the above prose SHOULD be an authored page. Jack is a man who raised himself by sheer DAMNED PLUCK - You need to be skeptical of Eliza's POV of both men. Jack survived the harsh winter of 1685 with Eliza with very little preparation. Hard to do. Bob managed the hired killers who Jeffreys wanted to kill Daniel. Daniel's and Enoch's interaction with the Shaftoe brothers illustrates much. - Sparky 19:05, 2004 Feb 8 (PST)
hehe , I would say, though, that it Is about time that Jack's page did recieve a little attention. For one of the, truely, main characters, it is remarkably sparce. Though, there doesn't seem to be any way to do so without providing spoilers, yet, I Do think there is a way to flesh out his Page while still allowing readers of it to, still, form their own opinions of his worth, importance, character, etc. We'll see. Chow, Sparky timberbee 10:22, 9 Feb 2004 (PST)
The focus of the article was speculation on Non-Alchemical life extension. When I get to the interaction of Clarke and Root -- we can investigate his hope for personal redemption of alchemists he provides materials for. - Sparky 15:40, 2004 Feb 8 (PST)