Talk:Stephenson:Neal:Quicksilver:Bob Shaftoe

From the Quicksilver Metaweb.

He shows a competence his brother makes up for with pluck. He is the smarter brother of the King of the Vagabonds, who loves one of the Maids of Taunton. Eliza almosts mistakes him for Jack, and lays out her plan of Abolitionism.

I would say that we are being shown two entirely different courses of Life, with Jack and Bob. I would also ask whether Bob's is the ordinary path, with his Good teeth, steady job, Healthy reputation, and connection to established, "Dependable" types. And Bob is a Dependable type himself,

except when it comes to the difficult matters, such as the one which Eliza tests him on. Has the man no guile or cunning at all? How would Jack have fared in that situation?

We don't see any Epic challenges with Bob. Bob seems to have gone with the flow his whole life, following orders, doing what needs to be done in a Moral way. Though, I would argue that a morality based purely upon the Societal expectations and rigid belief structures is not truely moral at all. Although it doesn't seem so, and, in my view some elements are Possibly missing, I think Jack's path is the more moral of the two.

True that was a nice piece in the tower with Daniel, but after doing his bit, he seems to have just faded to the back of that agreement. I would question, if Jack's love was held a slave, how would He have gone about freeing her?

My Bias is towards Jack. I think his brother is just a stooge :(, but a nice one.

I'm just not impressed with Bob. Not at all. timberbee

(SPECULATION) Ah, Bob was the reserve in continuity. Remember Jack is dying of the French Pox chained to a galley bench (irregardless of a possible escape). Bob's love (which humanized him for the first time) makes him the pivot of the Abolitionist movement that Eliza is creating. Remembering even the bravest and flawed Shaftoes do die. My theory is that the Mechanical Philospher Daniel (the Barker in the Tower) who was witness to the birth of the old Pretender has a different path in future books. And it may color when Enoch later choses to introduce himself to families he knows well.

Is Bob indeed a Reserve? I suppose it depends on what matters. If you could choose to be a pawn in a much larger game, a game neither of your making, nor, ultimately of your choosing, and one in which neither the beginning, nor the ending was known to you, nothing, in fact, other than the square open to you Right at that very moment,

Or To live a life which seemed quite real, not a game at all, failure and success depended on "Life" choices, carreer paths, and moral crossroads -- doing the "Right Thing". and, where moments generally seemed either "Terribly" important or "Tremendously" insignificant, either only in hindsight, or in reflection on how they would affect our life course. -- where we could say, with surety, to a child, "It's Utterly important that you take these SAT's seriously, You're Whole Life hangs in the balance here, young Lady." If, those were the choices, to be thrown on the waves, never again to know which way is up, which way to dry land, or to be able to pick the course of our life and have the chance to strive for it, which would You choose? Are those the choices we are shown here? (confused as always timberbee)

(SPECULATION) Yes, Jack was the backup Shaftoe for drowned Dick; Bob is his, under the watchful eye of Winston Churchill. Doing the Right Thing needs the addition of adaptable flexibility to be practical.
SATs along with ACTs in the end mean diddley. - Sparky 20:36, 2004 Jan 15 (PST)

Bob

There is a summation of Bob, on pg 710 of the first edition printing, in which Eliza recognizes that, for Bob, it was the “knowing what to do which was Always the hard part, while the doing, itself, was easy. “

This summation goes on to describe the partnership of the brothers during their Vagabond years. A partnership in which Bob was the “Older and Wiser” brother, continually preaching to his younger brother, a younger brother who received counsel both from Wisdom, and , the “Imp of the Perverse” – a phrase taken from Edgar Allen Poe.

There is little respect, in ones such as Bob – (men to whom others be Masters, and imagination is a sore, despicable thing, a foam speckled beast which races in pursuit of only one course; Revolution, whether of the heart, mind, or soul) little respect that is, for men such as Jack, natural riders of this strange, intense, Master less beast.

Bob is broken quickly on the anvil of Eliza, many times. The first time, We are told, at the start of his conversations with this one, that “A man more accustomed to helplessness would have put up more of a struggle”. Made slave to two, John Churchill, and now Eliza; through an imagined bond to another. Made slave now, through his inability to pursue direct action, through a seeking of an intermediary who might intercede for him.

His second breaking is the shattering of his illusions, that this woman, he imagines as pliable, is, in fact, no different than his Other Masters. Is it imagining that Jack fared so well, that inspired the thoughts that he should fare no worse, indeed, that where Jack only held his own, He, the “Older and the Wiser” should, no doubt, excel.

He does not, he is seen broken, as easily as a candy vase.

The third “breaking” is that of Honor, or, as Eliza styles Bob’s motivations for seeking the emancipation of Abigail, Pride.

Together, through these events, we witness the turning of Bob from a stated path, a quest to gain freedom for another, and see, instead, the bonding of one, hapless, though “Stolid” man.

Eliza’s final words for him are the nails upon the coffin “But if I am to make a mark upon this world it will have something to do with slavery. I will help you only insofar as it serves that end. And buying the freedom of one maiden does not serve it. But Abigail may be of use to me in other ways… I shall have to think on it. While I think on it she’ll be a slave to this Upnor. If she remembers you at all it will be as a turncoat and a coward. You will be a miserable wretch. In the fullness of melancholy time, perhaps you will come to see the wisdom of my position.”

Bob’s fatal flaw is his utter incomprehension of any path which leads to direct defiance – he does not think for himself, nor question those directives of those proven to be his Masters, as Eliza just proved. It is also that which makes him most valuable to those such as John Churchill, Eliza, even Jack, the unquestioned, steadfast loyalty of one who has the willingness to do what is asked. The loyalty of a dog, obedience without craven subservience, so clearly portrayed by Tom Hanks in the Road to perdition, and here, in the character of Bob.

No, Bob is not the “more Intelligent” Brother. Older, wiser, perhaps, but it was Jack who was the catalyst, and engineer of earlier ventures, and Bob who was the steady hand; An infinitely advantageous arrangement, the recurring theme of Bob’s life. Key to his success, key to his doom, Bob needs someone to make decisions for him, Bob also needs someone to be loyal to.

I am still researching what is shown of Bob's life. suggestions to follow. timberbee 07:42, 16 Jan 2004 (PST)

Daniel Waterhouse sees Bob differently than Eliza does.